50fps!

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We do 1080p or 4k footage mostly at 50fps In Europe. Can you make this setting available for our cameras footage parameters?
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ks

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Posted 2 months ago

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cbkr.team

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In the older versions, PAL (25 fps), was available, but somehow, European versions seemed to disappear when they added 60 fps, which I agree is really annoying. I've raised this before, that European standards need to be added back in. I'm sticking to older versions until they do, as I tend to shoot at either 25 or 24 fps anyway.
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Joe Morgan

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In another post regarding this issue.
Not sure what one, I just looked for it?

A TechSmith employee said 25 and 50 FPS support was on TechSmiths radar. Without providing dates as to when or if it will become available.

Regards,Joe
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cbkr.team

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Not sure about Windows Joe, but certainly was in Mac.
(Edited)
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Joe Morgan

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Not with regards to the timeline, which converts everything to 30 or 60 fps. Depending on project settings/Camtasia version.
You can export a custom production and produce a video using different frame rates. This has always been an option. The timeline has essentially stripped out native 25 or 50 fps support.
You can import 120fps footage as well, But if you added clip speed. The footage has already been converted to 30 or 60 fps. Deleting either 60 or 90 frames of footage.These frames cannot be retrieved.

 This is a destructive process. I wouldn't classify this as support for 25 or 50 fps content..


 

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cbkr.team

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I'm using Camtasia Mac 2 and Camtasia Mac 3. Both 2 & 3 allow you to set recording at PAL 25 fps in Preferences. That's missing from Camtasia Mac 2018 however.

(Edited)
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Joe Morgan

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You seem to be misunderstanding my point cbkr.team

You can manually type in varied fps/settings. In the recorders settings. Camtasia will record at that frame rate. This behavior dates back to Camtasia 7. I can't speak for versions 6 and further backward?



However................

If you place a 1 second........25 per second video/recording/media in Camtasia.

It’s converted to 30fps when placed on the timeline “automatically” when working on a 30fps project. In the long run, this is a very destructive process. It starts by Camtasia repeating frames to create 30fps.

In the image below, you’ll see a 25 fps project. I created it myself in Premiere Pro. It contains 25 images/frames of a clock. Sequentially 1-25. Camtasia has converted it to 30 fps. If you advance each frame manually. You would see its duplicated frames 1,6,11,16,and 21.



I Exported this project using a custom production at 25 fps from Camtasia.



I imported this Camtasia produced video into Premiere Pro.



What did Camtasia Render?

 What should be a 25 frame video with the frames reflecting the numbers 1 through 25.

 Frames 1,6,11,16 and 21 have been duplicated.

Frames 5,10,15,20, and 25 have been deleted.

SO......... Camtasia has effectively rendered 10 out of 25 frames incorrectly.

Understand now?

Regards, Joe








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Rick Stone

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I've always pondered about this aspect of the recording frame rate VS the editing and produced frame rate. It seems oddly misplaced to allow configuring anything different than 30 (and now 60) fps when recording if what you are demonstrating is true. (I'm not doubting that, as you cleverly demonstrated the result)

That makes me wonder why the adjustment allows for it.

One of the things I've considered is that perhaps when recording to simple AVI format, then using the resulting AVI in a different editor is why?
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cbkr.team

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I don't think I'm misunderstanding you Joe. I might be misunderstanding the program setup though. To me, the older Mac versions appear to be different. I know you are absolutely correct on Windows 2018 Camtasia, which I have seen on a Windows machine at work, though not really used, because you literally cannot select 25 fps, as a program setting; it's just not there; only in the way you've shown.

TechSmith do say there are differences between Windows and Mac versions - and I think that is demonstrated not least by the versions themselves. We've only had three, prior to 2018, whereas you seem to have had nine on Windows.

In the Mac program preferences menu, it looks like you can set the whole program to 25 fps PAL. Nowhere does it state that it converts to a different frame rate on the timeline, but maybe it does - I don't know for sure. This is not a project setting, but a program setting, which is what made me think that maybe it really can genuinely operate at 25 fps on Mac, at least in the older versions. Thanks for the information Joe. You're always very helpful, and maybe you're right, as you often are!
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dmey503

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I'd vote for giving us full control over the FPS like you get in After Effects or Premiere Pro. A lot of people shoot at 24 fps for "the cinematic" look (even though I think getting that look has more to do with equipment, lenses, lighting, etc...) and a lot of the stock clips you download are 24 fps--but it's always nice to edit in the same FPS you shoot.

 
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cbkr.team

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Very much agree!
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Joe Morgan

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I researched this topic using Camtasia 8 many years ago.
Unfortunately, Nothing has changed.

These are Camtasia Employee Responses below. From just 10 months ago in this thread.https://feedback.techsmith.com/techsmith/topics/what-is-the-last-version-of-camtasia-for-windows-tha...

Paul Middlin, Employee
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I think there are a few things going on at the same time... if you were using ".cmproj" on "version 2" then I believe you're talking about Camtasia for Mac v2.0. These project files are not compatible with Windows. Camtasia 3 was the first version where you could share project files with Camtasia for WIndows (v9). So, this is part of your problem... Camtasia 2018 for WIndows is intended to work with project files for Camtasia 2018 for Mac.

As to 25fps- Neither Mac nor Windows support 25FPS editing. Camtasia for Mac *will* let you record at 25fps, however once it reaches the Camtasia editor, it will be 30FPS again for editing, just like on Windows. 

When encoding (sharing, producing) you can choose 25FPS then as well.

Stephen Wagner, Employee

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Projects created in Camtasia 2 for Mac are not compatible with Camtasia 2018 for Mac or Windows.  Cross platform project compatibility was added in Camtasia 3 (Mac) and Camtasia 9 (Windows). Camtasia 2018 projects are cross platform.

Camtasia 2018 for Mac can open and convert Camtasia 2 for Mac projects.  If you want to use a Camtasia 2 for Mac project on the Windows platform, you will need to use the Mac version of Camtasia 2018 to convert it.  The keys for Camtasia 2018 are cross platform, so if you have a key for the windows version you also have a key for the Mac version.  But there is not reason you could not just use the trial to convert projects.  

Both Camtasia 2 for Mac and Camtasia 2018 have the ability to record at 25 fps.  Neither has the ability to edit at 25 fps.  Any 25 fps recordings you created with Camtasia 2 for Mac will work correctly in Camtasia 2018, but currently your only options are to edit in 30 fps or 60 fps.

-Stephen

Unfortunately, its the way things currently stand. If it changes one day , great. Until then.}:>(

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cbkr.team

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Thanks for taking the trouble to find that Joe. So, it's confirmed then, that Camtasia Mac just appears to do the job properly, because of the way the menu layouts are presented and where you find them in the program, but actually does it no different to Camtasia Windows. It's a shame that TechSmith haven't bothered to include the standard for the other half of the world, on either platform. Let's hope they take note of this thread, and bump it up the to-do list, for both platforms.

Thanks again.
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Joe Morgan

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Heres the kicker, if you record and edit at 30 fps. Then export the video at 25 fps.
Camtasia will discard every 5th frame to create 25 fps.

However, if you record at 25 fps. The editor duplicates every 5th frame to create 30fps. Problem is, it duplicates the frames that are retained when rendering at 25fps
So you end up with 5 duplicated per second.
The editor deletes 5 other frames instead.
Which makes for a poorer quality video overall.

It's kind of ridiculous when you think it through.
I realized something was amiss in Camtasia 8.That's what made me dig into this mess.

I could make the 25fps video available to you if you want it. Seeing is believing, I not sure that my mp4 is compatible with Mac. I can render to any format.
 
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cbkr.team

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Hi Joe,

Wow - that is a kicker! You see, as you may be aware, in Britain and continental Europe, as well as some other places in the world, we have no choice but to film at 50, 25, or 24 fps, because our mains electricity frequency is 50 Hz, so if we film at 30 or 60 fps, with any electric lighting involved, we get flicker in the camera, so TechSmith are doing us a double disservice, because we can't film at 30 or 60 fps, to be able to enact the solution of filming at 30 and exporting at 25. Hence, unless TechSmith get their act together and solve this, it almost looks like the best option is to find another editing program! That's very disappointing, because Camtasia is so nice to use - one of the best video editing GUIs I've found; possibly the best, and I can't stand Adobe Premiere's GUI at all.

At the very least, you'd think that TechSmith would allow you to pick the frequency of frame discard. So, knowing they add every fifth frame, you could choose to discard every fifth frame on export to 25 fps, or they could even automate it that way, but apparently either of those options is too much like common sense. I'd welcome seeing your 25 fps video, thanks - to compare it to all of mine. MP4 works fine on Mac by the way, so no problems there. Thanks again Joe - you certainly go the extra mile.

By the way, my work on videos at work is likely to be coming to an end in a few weeks' time, but as I've got Camtasia 3 on my personal MacBook Pro at home, I've created my own personal account, so look out for MJZ2325. I'll post a comment here after I've submitted this.

Cheers.

MJ.
(Edited)
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mjz2325

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Hi Joe, 

This is me on my personal account. 

Cheers. 

MJ. 
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Joe Morgan

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mjz2325

My original intention was to post a link in the forum. That way anyone could download it.

Then, the thought hit me? A video demonstration. Should save everyone a lot of time and effort. So here it is in a nut shell........}:>)

If you click "vimeo" on the playback controls.You can watch it in full HD on Vimeo.




(Edited)
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Joe Morgan

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This is a link to the 1 second video. If you still want it.mjz2325

http://www.mediafire.com/file/np7gu9wi98fxib2/25_frame_per_second_1_second_video.mp4/file

 

Here is an animation comparison I created. It demonstrates the negative impact.

The Premiere Pro Icon is an animation I created in PP at 25fps.

 I replaced the PP icon with a Camtasia icon. Creating a second video with an identical animation.

I imported it into Camtasia and re-rendered it at 25fps.

Placed the 2 videos side by side in PP. At 25 fps the PP icon stutters along steadily. This is unavoidable as per the projects settings & speed of the animation. It’s a 1080p video. The Icons are 256 x 256 pixels.

The Camtasia icon’s erratic motion speaks for itself.




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Maris Briedis

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Hi all.

I found this post because I had the exact problem. I live in a "PAL" country, so my shoot my videos 25fps or 50fps. Unfortunately, I did not realize this issue before, because I was mainly using screen record in Camtasia.

So if Camtasia developers read this, please add an option to have 25fps or 50fps timeline.

Still, I have a question about audio when 25fps video is added to the 30fps timeline. I understand that video frames are duplicated, but what happens to the audio that is recorded in the same file as video? doe the length also get modified somehow? 

Thanks.
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cbkr.team

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Hi Maris,

Thanks for adding your support. To answer your question, the audio won't change, as all they are doing is cramming more video frames into the same second of time.

Kind regards,

MJ.