Support Metal on the Mac

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Metal is Apple's APIs to create pro apps with a focus on fast image, audio, and video performance. I do not know if Techsmith has fully embraced Metal, but given the performance gains I am seeing with Adobe and Serif products, it at least feels like it could be utilized more in Camtasia.

Editing longer (15m+) videos makes it difficult to zoom, scroll, edit, etc quickly in the UI as it slows down with redraws and output can take a very long time when compared to competitive products like Final Cut Pro and Adobe Premiere/After Effects/Media Encoder.

Of course, this could just be a request to improve performance for Camtasia on editing longer videos and providing improved output performance. I suggest Metal as it is a framework Apple is really driving pro apps like Camtasia to adopt.
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bill.raymond

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Posted 2 months ago

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Joe Morgan

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No thanks, the mega monopoly Apple needs to keep their mitts off Camtasia.

Their operating systems are plummeting downhill while they concern themselves with i-phone development.

The ripped support for Quicktime away from Windows. Killing a lot of .mov support. Why, seems their primarily concerned with their platform.
And would screw over Windows users in a heartbeat.

No thanks again!

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davemillman

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Gosh, Joe, what do you really think?

Personally, as an Apple fanboy, I'm rooting for Metal support.
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paulwilliamengle

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Also, given that the respective Camtasia platforms for Mac and Windows do not feature 1:1 parity, would this proposal - if implemented - affect Windows? 
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Joe Morgan

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Mac operating systems should be able to access Mac features.
However, not at the expense of Windows consumers. That's my point really.

Mac's can run a Windows operating system.  Primarily because Windows users had access to the lions share of available software not that long ago.

Will Apple allow Windows users to install and run a Mac operating system in parallel. Not in a million years! They don't play fair. And deserve nothing more from the Windows community.Unless they give back.

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paulwilliamengle

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But I don't get how what Apple does affects Windows users? Or how this Apple enhancement comes at the expense of a Windows user. The two do not seem related. 
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Joe Morgan

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Do you honestly think if Camtasia invested a lot of resources into this.
Then had to increase the cost of Camtasia to offset that investment.
That they will charge Mac users more than Windows users?

When the Mac version was launched years ago. It was much cheaper than the Windows version.
It also came with far less capabilities. So there was a defined logic to the offset.
The mac versions were along the lines of 50% less to purchase.

Since Camtasia 9. There have been no price discrepancy's.
Since one license now allows you to install Camtasia on both platforms. I think it would difficult or impossible.To justify charging  Mac users more than Windows users.
How would you square that circle.
 
(Edited)
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paulwilliamengle

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So I'll be fully transparent that I'm operating with a few known unknowns: 

1) I don't know how much work the OP's request would entail.
Opinion: I think TS would do well to explore how their Camtasia products take advantage of their native OS to increase speed and performance.

2) You think an enhancement like this would require a price hike. That's a fair point. I'm not sure how often Camtasia Studio for Windows has seen a price hike in its 10-15 years of existence. 
Opinion: I don't think folks want to pay more than $250 for a entry-level video editor. I believe Screenflow is half as expensive as Camtasia and is Camtasia for Mac's primary competitor, so I don't see a price hike being feasible.  

Really enjoy your thoughts and perspective, as always. 
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Joe Morgan

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I didn't state this would require an automatic increase in price.

However, if this were some magic bullet that makes Camtasia run smoother. And render videos faster.
That sounds like a complex makeover "May Be Required" from the top down.
I don't envision this inexpensive to implement.
Nor do I think TechSmith would eat the cost.

Plus, you would need to be running a Mac to benefit from this new engine.  Since Metal doesn't run on Windows.

Therefor, its no more than a one sided upgrade. 

It's worse than laptops that only offer Thunderbolt connectors. At least one could purchase adapters for that.
(Edited)
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paulwilliamengle

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With two different operating systems, won't there always going to be little perks and features that one side has that the others do not. 

If Apple chooses to upgrade their OS that makes programs that use their OS run faster and better....I don't think "well, windows users can't take advantage of it" isn't an argument for TS not to scope out how it could benefit Camtasia Mac users. 
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paulwilliamengle

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So the fact that Windows users can't take advantage of Metal's API is a reason for Camtasia/Mac developers not to scope out how to enhance that program for those who use Camtasia for Mac? 
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Joe Morgan

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I agree, I simply stated don't pass the cost onto Windows users as it wouldn't be fair.

You haven't addressed how that could be implemented.
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paulwilliamengle

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As a (nearly) exclusive Camtasia for Windows user, I wholly agree with this sentiment. I don't want to pay an extra dime for something I won't be able to use.

Assuming that this ever happens in the future, I imagine two possible tacks TS could take in implementation:

1) separate out the versions again and raise price on Camtasia for Mac only?

2) take a temporary loss by eating the cost and make that revenue up elsewhere with assets? 
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Rick Stone

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Just a thought from the sidelines here.

There are often unforeseen "consequences" of things like this. But in this case, I'm going to call it an "unforeseen BENEFIT".

Bear with me on this.

We often like to consider that our own preferences are "best". But best for who, exactly?

I think that having exposure to specific operating system things can actually be a benefit in the following way. Say that this "Metal" thing, (whatever it is) is something super cool and way useful for folks on that OS. Now the developers may be happily working on it and it may only appear in the MAC OS. But for now.

Then a Windows user becomes aware of this cool new feature. And that can drive demand for the developers to make something equally as cool for the Windows folks.

Note that this is NOT simply theory. Some that are reasonably new here may not realize it, but we did actually see this play out. 

I've been participating in this particular forum since early December, 2010. And in all that time, I never recalled ever seeing someone post asking about something along the lines of the "Remove a color" feature. Perhaps someone did, but I personally don't recall it ever having come up.

Along comes a version of Camtasia for the MAC that sports this handy feature. And Oh. My. God. the Windows users went bananas. How dare TechSmith add a feature to MAC that Windows doesn't have! My life with Camtasia just won't be complete until we have this feature! It was funny to watch the outcry play out.

So what happened?

Well, after all the public outcry, the feature finally made its way into the Windows version. I see that as a benefit to all of us. 

Cheers... Rick :)
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Joe Morgan

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This entire conversation has been based on 100% hypothetical mumbo jumbo that may be 100% impossible to implement. Apple lives in an Apple propitiatory world. Where they wouldn't share Metal for free.

Feature parity is feature parity.  A different subject all together.

This subject has gotten so far into the weeds. I'm done with it.

(Edited)
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bill.raymond

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@Joe Stop trying to degrade me and my ideas. I am very specifically referring to you referring to my idea as "hypothetical mumbo jumbo". 
I am happy to converse with anyone willing to have a professional conversation on the topic.
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davemillman

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Bill, I don't think Joe was aiming his comments at you. He's just a bit...anti-Mac. We love him anyway. 
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bill.raymond

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@Rick Paul and I had a similar conversation and I realized the idea may be better suited as to request Camtasia use "native core graphics technology" or something like that. Not that they are exactly the same, but DirectX (Microsoft) is super similar to Metal.

 I was just speaking to a person at Adobe who said their engineering team created a set of high-level APIs their code uses, then they have OS-level code that uses DirectX (Windows) or Metal (Mac OS) for their pipelines. They seem really happy with their performance improvements and I originally asked him the question because as a customer, I was happy too :-)

Since I am primarily a Mac user, my idea as posted was more about Metal, but very much think there is an overall opportunity here for both operating systems.
(Edited)
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Joe Morgan

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Well bill.raymond
the "hypothetical mumbo jumbo" comment refereed to breadth of this conversation/post. How it had gotten out of hand with regards to the original subject matter.

I.E. What you originally posted. I certainly wasn't degrading you. I can see why my first post could be regarded as attacking  your idea. That was shortsighted of me and not my intent. I do apologize  for that. I've defended countless members who's ideas were shot down by other members. Reading my first comment, I've embarrassed myself to be quite honest. That's not how I roll.

When feature parity entered the conversation. I felt the original subject completely jumped the rails. I was bailing out from further input and letting it be know why.

After your post........
I contacted Tech support.

The answer is Yes and No. Metal is already utilized to a certain degree. It's not fully implemented yet.And should be down the road.Their working on it.

As it stands, it appears Apple has the power to demand changes like this take place. So TechSmith,Adobe and other developers. Must all go down this road.

Camtasia for Windows does use DirectX.

Hope that covers it {:>)

Regards,Joe

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paulwilliamengle

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Though I have Camtasia for both Mac and Windows, my usage on my 2011 MBP is limited due to its age. 

Though, I was using Camtasia for Windows on an 8 minute project - admittedly, with lots of moving parts - and it was an ordeal the longer the editing session went on. 
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bill.raymond

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Hi Paul, I wonder if the same idea could be in place for Windows to use DirectX (again, if not already used or if feasible technically)?