Unfollow because Techsmith is not listening

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Unfollow because Techsmith knows better.

Snagit is destroyed with release 13.

Have fun!

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hans.kardol

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Posted 2 years ago

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Paul

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Harsh step to take but I can fully appreciate the frustration. All we can hear is the sound of corporate silence.  Listen ....................................................
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Rick Grunwald

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It is hard to hear the sound of little people from such lofty heights

Some of the employees DO try to help so kudos the them
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rjbjensen

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I agree.  SnagIt 13 sucks.  I'm going back to 11.
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rdrines

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I suspect their silence is part of their marketing process that is only focused internally, instead of thinking about retaining those who have been disrupted by a product release failure.  

As a senior executive in a major company, I found it was often hard to get consensus from some groups.  It was especially hard when the product manager of a release refused to believe the negative reactions were disruptive its users.  

Another reason for the silence was caused by different factions that wanted the next release to follow what worked previously, while the new approach group wanted to continue to blaze their own trail.  Whatever the reason for the indecision and communication, we don’t have any sense of where the interface design will go with SnagIt’s next release.  

This lack of information about what they are thinking creates a vacuum that depreciates their customer’s hope.  It would serve Techsmith well to acknowledge the current release’s failures and give users some assurance their next release will attempt to resolve the interface complaints that made version 13 a clumsy and time-consuming design.  For now, SnagIt isn’t the only means we have for managing screen captures.  Moving on hasn’t happened for me yet because it has been my go-to application for more than a dozen years.  

Where its interface layout goes from here is anyone’s guess.  I hope they implement many of the suggestion that has been offered.  If they don’t, we are going to face a learning curve as we move on to other programs.

What I do know is that my last 3-year service agreement is coming to an end soon.  For now, my decision is to wait and see what they offer in their next release before extending a service agreement for a version I don’t use.
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Paul

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Well said rdines :)
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Paul

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What do we want?
1. a product that works
2. a product that SUPPORTS our workflow not DISRUPTS it
3. a UI that decreases the clicks required not increases them
4. a product that prioritises user needs over gratuitous and bad design
5. a vendor that is responsive not deaf

When do we want it?
NOW!!!!

TechSmith - why do you not get this?
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Chris Larson, Snagit Technical Product Manager

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Hi all,

We are certainly are listening and hear you. Snagit 13 isn’t meeting your expectations as a long time user of Snagit.

The biggest complaints from the change that still need some work:

  • Lack of hotkeys for common tools
  • Too far to move between tools and properties when want to use a drawing tool
  • Don’t know where things are now

We really care about our long term customers, we’ve put out releases that address a lot of the issues we’ve heard from you. (If you are interested in participating in our betas, let me know. They are a big component of how we evaluate the UI design.)

We continue to make improvements to the UI. If you haven’t tried 13 since the release of 13.0, there are a lot of good changes: https://www.techsmith.com/snagit-version-history.html

Here is where we’ve communicated our direction. https://feedback.techsmith.com/techsmith/topics/snagit-13-ui-disappointing  Specifically:
“To be clear, we're moving forward with the 13 Editor design for the foreseeable future. All our analytics show an increase in tool usage in Editor. Which is fantastic. We’ve got more people than ever using the tools we’ve built to be more effective at their jobs. I apologize if there are workflow hindrances that arose from that. We learned quite a bit from our betas prior to launch and delivered a version of Snagit that many have upgraded to and continue to use.”

By increased tool usage, that means both more people (new and existing customers) are using tools and they are being used with more regularity. We monitor that usage and it’s continued to increase over time. We've seen a  2 to 4 fold increase in tool usage and the ratio of active users to install base. So overall, we’re happy with what the change got us.

The goals of the change in 13 were:

  • Expose more of the power of Snagit, while not coming off as overwhelming
  • Promote and support customization of tools
  • Make the interface more approachable
  • Put us in a better place to scale the UI as we add tools, effects, and other features
    And of course:
  • Maintain as many common workflows across Snagit as possible as we make change

Again, we take changing the UI very seriously. We are now in a good place to scale tools and their properties. So it is a good base to build future functionality. And we are committed to continue to make existing workflows easier. Be it with favoriting tools and quick styles, more powerful presets, or improved sharing outputs.

If you have better ideas for how to communicate with you, please contact Robert (r.risdon@techsmith.com) or I (c.larson@techsmith.com). GetSat has it’s limits and we’re definitely interested in your needs.

I’m also available to speak with you if you feel that you aren’t being heard with respect to Snagit. Just contact me and we can set up some time or have a conversation through email.

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Bernd Jaeger

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Gotta say one thing - I have been a long time Mac User and I am just returning to Windows. One of my main reasons to  use Camtasia and Snagit instead of other Windows Tools  is the design of the GUI. I find it clean and very usable. Of course I am also a shortcut junkie, so every new shortcut I welcome ;-)
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Paul

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Pleased to see some reaction at last but.....

Just over 5 weeks ago I posted a long series of comments on how badly broken the UI is.   I was invited to have a discussion with the team and accepted.  5 weeks have passed and no meeting has been arranged. So much for valuing the feedback of existing users.

I can see that your priority is chasing new customers.  But please remember every time an existing user buys a new licence for a new version, we are effectively new customers too. "New new" users will; be unaware of what has been lost but the "New Existing" are faced with a UI that makes it more difficult to achieve simple things and has introduced bizarre features that make no sense compared to what we had before.  I will not catalog them all again but I will describe a couple of the more obvious examples.

First, you have to toggle back and forth between 'Effects' and 'Properties' in the Editor. Why, when there is space for both?  That's not a very responsive design.

Every capture you take appears in the editor with what looks like a 1px black border.  It isn't.  If you paste the image elsewhere you don't get a border. If, as I do, you want to add a 1 x border, you can't distinguish it from the non-removable faux border.

By the way, if you decide you want to add a border the default is an 8px black border.  Can you show me any help system, any web page, anything that would benefit from an 8px black border?You can't change it to your preferred default so every session the system default returns.  You can use a preset but then you have to figure out how to do that and remember to apply it when needed.

This is just one example of how, in the interests of allowing you to move forward, things have been badly broken.  You have just made it so HARD for people to do simple things.

My concern is that the money I contribute to product development  through my licence fees is being frittered away in developing stuff like this.  Did a real user specify a non-removable faux border or a default border setting that noone would want to use?  How much time was invested in developing that and could that time have been used to develop something that real users want?

I get how hard your job is,  I am am a software product manager myself.  I know that the development pipeline is always greater than the development capacity.  That's why it's so important to focus on the stuff users want. I am an early adopter. I then give myself time to become accustomed to the new version before i comment, but even after 6 months there is no getting used to poor design.

Excuse the pushback, but these things have to be said.  In mitigation, I am subscribed to the 'Help other users' option, and I do

I was a passionate advocate for SnagIt.  You have received many licence purchases through recommendations from people like me.  But as of version 13 I have stopped recommending it.  I have already found a better alternative for video capture and I am going to revert to an earlier version.for image capture.
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Robert R., Online Community Admin

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Hi Paul;

First I'd like to apologize about the call; there have been numerous changes and situations that have come across that have directly effected a few of my responsibilities. I am still hoping to get in on a call, there are just additional hurdles I must get beyond for the topic of our conversation.

This sort of constructive feedback is exactly what I am looking for as it helps me drive home the struggles that you (the users) are having within our products. The more constructive feedback I can get, the more I can push things up the chain.

As for the Border issue; I can see how the below can be problematic in situations where the primary colors of an image are not starkly contrasting with the color of the border.

(example)


To be concise for this particular problem, is the issue the lack of removable faux border, or the lack of a defined default preset that meets your needs?

-Robert
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hans.kardol

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Good points Paul,

thing is that we have a software development company and use snagit for creating our manuals (that are being made available for our customers through Createspace). I am spending lots of time testing our own software and I know it is hard to find all bugs always. But changing a product in something completely new without any customer requirements in that area, and not taking the comments serious is a shortcut way out of business. I too was a big fan of snagit and introduced it at our customers, but stopped now. That free marketing channel might not be worth much for Techsmith, but its gone.

I also provided detailed comments on the items that bother me the most, but they don't want to understand, I think they don't use their own product as much as we do. For a first time user, it might look OK, but making large numbers of screen shots per day for specific post processing purposes will change the experience rapidly.

I don't want to spend more time unless they will show understanding and bring back the quick and easy screen shot tools with all the extras we were used to and some nice new extra features like changing results to high DPI pictures.

I must say I have gotten a reply from Techsmith support to download the newest version 13 that should be so much better, no idea if that is true, anyone having any experience?

One ignorant line in the link to that reply makes me shiver:

But I don't see another dramatic change to the UI happening again anytime soon.

and another:

We learned quite a bit from our betas prior to launch and delivered a version of Snagit that many have upgraded to and continue to use.

A bit, that is just NOT ENOUGH!!!!!!!!! And maybe just not enough BETA testers.

To be fair, they also ask for other ways of communication, but I am past that stage already, which they would have known if the would have looked in my coms history.

I give up hoping for better, will install an old release and hopefully find an alternative soon.

Hans

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Paul

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Hi Robert.  My first concern is the removal of the faux border but please don't take this one issue out of context.  It's just one example of how bad things have got.

It's so sad to see that a develop wasted time adding in a feature that was obviously flawed (how did it even get specified like that?  How did it pass QA?).  That effort was wasted.

And now more precious effort has to be wasted fixing what didn't need changing in the first place.  Multiply that by the number of unnecessarily changed items and you can see why loyal customers are so dismayed by what is going on.

13 is clearly an unlucky number.  The builders in out street didn't even assign the number 13 to a house.  Maybe we should just look forward to release 14 and hope TechSmith are magnanimous enough to make it a freebie?

Best Regards


Paul
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Chris Larson, Snagit Technical Product Manager

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As Robert said, thank you Paul for the concrete examples of where Snagit 13 is fighting your workflow.

"You have to toggle back and forth between 'Effects' and 'Properties' in the Editor."
Yes, this is something that we are aware of and will be looking at solving. One workaround in the meantime would be to add the effect that you use frequently to the toolbar and then it will switch to the effect tab for you when you click on it.

We've also had users with the desire to use more of the space of Editor and not have properties open at all. And we'll look at both of those together.

"You can't change it to your preferred default so every session the system default returns.  You can use a preset but then you have to figure out how to do that and remember to apply it when needed."
Also something that we will be investigating. That's quite high on our list of improvements.
(Edited)
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Rick Grunwald

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Chris, the worst thing that started in version 12 is .. you stopped listening and responding to your customers and imposed some sort of roadmap that did not consider the end user or their work flow. Easy things became difficult or even impossible which is having the effect of killing the product
You might consider devoting the rest of the version 13. cycle to fixing the mess rather than more features. Get the program back to the streamlined versions of v10 & 11 that actually worked well
And PLEASE .. start listening to the customer base. That is the way out of the present decline which  will soon affect Techsmith's wallet if it is not doing so already
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Paul

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Chris

You use the sense of 'improvements' as if they are great new ideas that need to be incorporated whereas the reality is you are just restoring what you broke by design.

Please pardon us if we are underwhelmed.  

PLEASE take this the right way.  The fact that we are continuing to engage in this dialogue is because we hold out hope for a commitment to do everything that Rick just said.  Enough of us have asked, often enough over the last six months.

We have told you what is wrong and in most cases have provided well thought out  ideas on how to fix it. We don't know what more we can do to help.  Please tell us.
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Chris Larson, Snagit Technical Product Manager

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You have certainly done a great job laying out what you find frustrating and I thank you. We definitely have a good idea of what this community is asking for due to the contributions from customers like you all and you've done a great job illustrating potential solutions, agreed.

Quick Edit: My main point here is that you guys have definitely done enough to help and if more examples pop up, we'd love to hear about them.

We will be addressing most of the frustrations in some manner in future releases. Keeping in mind both your desired workflow and those of new customers using Snagit for the first time. As Robert said, he'll be getting a call with you scheduled. Apologies for the delay.


By the way, here is another method for saving off your effects between sessions in the meantime (it should be remembering during a session and across images, if it's not let me know). I understand that this isn't the greatest if you end up adding the effect to the toolbar for quick access at the moment:
(Edited)
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Paul

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Yeah that would be good if those effects didn't keep disappearing between sessions, as reported way back when.  If only the faux border would disappear as readily. :)

OK, so the $64,000 question now is how long till we see fixes starting to appear please?  I realise you can't commit to a date.  It would be suicide.  Bur are we talking weeks, months, quarters.....?

Believe it or not, some reasonable period might persuade me to continue to ferret out v13 issues rather than downgrade to v11.
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Rick Grunwald

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+1
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Chris Larson, Snagit Technical Product Manager

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Like you said we can’t commit to a date because there are too many moving parts. But I’d say some of the small to medium changes are certainly candidates for maintenance releases which can happen 1-3 months for Snagit Windows (security and breaking changes from the OS are fixed quicker than that of course). The larger changes on the other hand are candidates for minor releases or majors so I’d forecast releases like those in increments of quarters.

As always it really depends on how much user testing and how much time we need to stabilize changes when we judge the size of a change and execute on them.
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Rick Grunwald

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Most of us can live with that. Thanks
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rdrines

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Hello Chris,
Thanks for caring enough to provide insights into SnagIt’s future design goals.  Understanding more about how SnagIt will evolve can provide more assurances than our guesses.  In my case, my guesses are contaminated by the disappointments version 13 created.  

In these comments, you mentioned a group of goals:
  • Expose more of the power of Snagit, while not coming off as overwhelming
  • Promote and support customization of tools
  • Make the interface more approachable
  • Put us in a better place to scale the UI as we add tools, effects, and other features
  • And of course:
  • Maintain as many common workflows across Snagit as possible as we make change
These items sound good.  However, they don’t give us an understanding of what they mean.  For example, “Expose more of the power of Snagit, while not coming off as overwhelming,” I want that sentence to mean we will go back to the “Quick-Click” palettes we had.  Or, it could mean it will have the floating palettes that are common in graphics manipulation software.  Many examples of the previous sentence got posted months earlier.

My reading inserted “palettes” because the biggest reason I don’t use version 13 came when I discovered it tossed aside the simple tool access that it replaced with an exercise of “Whack-A-Mole” menu item clicks.  

My technical writing is important and effective because SnagIt has been a great tool for letting me talk with images.  Unfortunately, I found what I can do quickly in the last version of v12, takes many times longer in v13.  It takes longer because the workflow ergonomic were scrambled and replaced by a software version of “geocaching.”

At the heart of faith are a set of beliefs.  While my biases want to believe, they mean what I want them to mean, it won’t be productive for me to think that what I want them to mean is not what you meant.  Can you add some meat to the above bones, so we all will have something to chew on and stand in line to happen?

Thanks again for taking the time to engage our comments.  Your participation is helping.
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Paul

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Given your latest post Chris I, for one, am prepared to stick it out a little longer.

When you get to that User Testing you mentioned, PLEASE be sure to harvest the names that have appeared repeatedly here.  You have some ready and willing testers - please recruit us.
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Chris Larson, Snagit Technical Product Manager

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Thank you all. :)

We aren't able to commit to the exact solution for the workflow issues we've discussed until we've tested them out a bit more and know we can deliver. Like I mentioned above, we are committed to continue to make existing workflows easier. "Be it with favoriting tools and quick styles, more powerful presets, or improved sharing outputs." That was a quick list of potential solutions, but I'd certainly add quicker access to Quick Styles there as well.

I'll certainly make sure to grab the contact information of everyone that's commented on this thread and give you all an earlier opportunity to give feedback in future betas. Please make sure you include your email address in your GetSat profile (doesn't have to be publicly visible) and I'll check those before the next beta goes out.
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rdrines

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“... we are committed to continue to make existing workflows easier. "Be it with favoriting tools and quick styles, more powerful presets, or improved sharing outputs." That was a quick list of potential solutions, but I'd certainly add quicker access to Quick Styles there as well.”

 Thanks for adding this information.  It helps to clarify your earlier comments and adds to the hope that the future of SnagIt is focused on improving its ease of use.  In my work, anything that makes SnagIt’s tools easier to apply, will reduce the capture to publication effort. 

 Consider adding annotation tools.  This area has been an area that takes a lot of time to create a consistent series of callouts across a series of images that have a stable appearance.  

Biggest issue we have in SnagIt is how to control the size, border and color of the annotation label, its connection to an image area with a line marker and line joints so the connections appear jagged.  All the required annotation elements are in SnagIt v11 to 13, but the process for creating a single annotation takes a lot effort.  It is timesink because the creation is a piecemeal process.  There isn't any ability to edit or create a callout labels other than the drawing shapes.  Right now the callout process often doesn't look adequately consistent when multiple images are in a publication.

 "I'll certainly make sure to grab the contact information of everyone that's commented on this thread and give you all an earlier opportunity to give feedback in future betas."

OK.  I’m willing to spend the time to report my experience with a SnagIt-Beta series.

Thanks for taking the time to keep us on board.