What we're losing with Snagit 11 upgrade

  • 13
  • Question
  • Updated 4 years ago
  • Answered
According to the Snagit version history the following are part of the upgrade to 11

* Restricted the use of GIF and 256-color image files to only during opening and saving.
* Removed support for several file formats including .msp, .cal, .pcx, .raw, etc.
* Removed the ability to capture full screen DOS windows.
* Removed the ability to capture icons from .exe and .dll files.
* Removed the "Create Web Page" feature.
* Removed the Web Capture mode.
* Removed the ability to capture from DirectX applications.
* Removed various region capture options including capturing triangle region, a rounded rectangle region, an ellipse region, etc.

I'm used to upgrades adding but not removing. I can't find an explanation but would like to understand the reasoning before I decide whether to upgrade.

Thanks.
Photo of Catherine Kubitschek

Catherine Kubitschek

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes

Posted 8 years ago

  • 13
Photo of Tiffany Wood

Tiffany Wood

  • 157 Posts
  • 16 Reply Likes
Hello,
That is great feedback, thank you for asking.

Based on our research and user data analysis, we removed those features/capabilities because customers were not using those options.This allowed us to eliminate some outdated code and continue to offer a superior user experience.

Here is a link that describes what is new:
http://www.techsmith.com/snagit-whats...

You can install the free, 30 day trial side by side with your current Windows version and try it for yourself. We would really like to get your feedback.

Thanks again,
Tiffany
Photo of magusat999

magusat999

  • 4 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
Btw one of the formats you said people weren't using - .raw  - are you kidding me? Every photographer I know uses that format. We need a neutral .raw viewer, so we don't have to open up a massive program just to see them. A program like Snagit would have been perfect for that - but NOOOOOOO, "people aren't using it", so you removed that functionality in you updowngrade... really.
Photo of Raymond Joyce

Raymond Joyce

  • 6 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
I use the create web page feature for my company training steps and now find I can no longer use this feature in the upgraded version of Snag-it. Why? No option given, you just remove it. My global company decided to go with Snag-it years ago because of the features offered for screen capture. It was clearly a great tool to capture screen shots for trouble shooting our customer base issues and used to aid in creating training materials. Now, with the lost of some of the past features, it seems to give no options other than finding another source for performing these past functions.
Photo of Rick Stone

Rick Stone

  • 5891 Posts
  • 2811 Reply Likes
Just an observation here, but I believe the features that are added or removed only occur after a careful analysis of how the majority of folks actually use the product. I know that many products will ask you upon installation if you wish to participate in an ongoing "product improvement" program. This typically means that usage data gets collected as you use the product. I believe SnagIt offers this option.

If you elected to opt out, there would be no data to indicate that was one of your most often used features.

Cheers... Rick :)
Photo of Raymond Joyce

Raymond Joyce

  • 6 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Yea, that's one way of looking it. But after many years of using a couple of standard features wth Snagit, and building up a nice library of work, I never expected these features to be removed. Now what do I do? I guess the answer is to downgrade to a lower version.
Photo of Luke Morrison

Luke Morrison

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
You are correct. I am considering upgrading to 12 from 11.4 I've read version history https://www.techsmith.com/snagit-version-history.html and it doesn't mention looseing features anywhere?
Photo of Catherine Kubitschek

Catherine Kubitschek

  • 2 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Thanks, Tiffany. That's what I wanted to know.
Photo of josben

josben

  • 3 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi Tiffany. How does the new video recording feature in Snagit compare with Camtasia? Does it auto-zoom into areas of interest like Camtasia, or is it more basic?
Photo of Tiffany Wood

Tiffany Wood

  • 157 Posts
  • 16 Reply Likes
Hello,
Thanks for the question. The Snagit video capture is more basic, it doesn't have any auto-zoom like Camtasia, or any editing.

The Snagit video is encoded in real time so shortly after you finish, it's ready to share. We hope Snagit video will come in handy if you want to record a quick demo, provide feedback to someone, share an error with Tech Support, or other quick tasks.

If you are trying to create videos with polish, add music or title clips, or combine multiple videos, Camtasia is the best tool.

Both Snagit and Camtasia have free 30 day trials, so you can also test them both out and see what will work best for you.

http://www.techsmith.com/download/sna...
http://www.techsmith.com/download/cam...

Thank you,
Tiffany
Photo of anthonymrx

anthonymrx

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi,
I fail to see how removing the ability to capture DirectX screens, IE: Video Games was deemed necessary. The only reason I bought Snagit was to capture snapshots of some of the games I played to post online. If I can no longer do that then I cannot upgrade.
Photo of Adam Marks

Adam Marks, Software Developer

  • 124 Posts
  • 17 Reply Likes
Hi anthonymrx, Using All-in-One capture in Snagit 10.0 and above will capture most modern DirectX games so we can still capture screens from DirectX video games. The DirectX capture that we removed was for use with older DirectX games and older Windows OS versions.
Photo of othisis.nemo

othisis.nemo

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
I'm so glad I found this post.  I was about to upgrade from version 10 to 12, but a lot of the functionality that they've removed are things that I use and require.  

What a stupid policy to remove features.

Also - expecting your users to give up their privacy to help you with market research also seems stupid.  

Also - there is a thing called selection bias - if you only use feedback from those that allow you to invade their privacy, then you will have a skewed view of your customer demographic.  Those types of users are usually not sophisticated.  So you are basing your design choices not based on forward thinking, proactive design, but instead on what your lowest level customer 'reports' to you.

btw - my purchase would have been a 50+ user license.

instead, i guess we'll continue with windows snippet and old versions of snagit.

it's interesting how smart software folk allow not so smart marketing to drive their business decisions.
Photo of cwoolfork

cwoolfork

  • 7 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
I just check out the feature list for Snagit v11 and according the release notes, the following features have been removed:

•Removed support for several file formats including .msp, .cal, .pcx, .raw, etc.
•Removed the ability to capture full screen DOS windows.
•Removed the ability to capture icons from .exe and .dll files.
•Removed the "Create Web Page" feature.
•Removed the Web Capture mode.
•Removed the ability to capture from DirectX applications.
•Removed various region capture options including capturing triangle region, a rounded rectangle region, an ellipse region, etc.

I use several of these feature so I do not understand the wisdom behind removing them. Why were these features removed?

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Removal Of Features From Snagit v11 (???).
Photo of Tiffany Wood

Tiffany Wood

  • 157 Posts
  • 16 Reply Likes
Hello,
As mentioned above, based on our research and user data analysis, we removed those features/capabilities because the majority of our customers were not using those options.This allowed us to eliminate some outdated code and continue to offer a superior user experience.

Thank you,
Tiffany
Photo of cwoolfork

cwoolfork

  • 7 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
Wow. It is a shame that TechSmith cannot figure out away to make the features listed above available for those of us in the 'minority' who use them. I am a long time customer of TechSmith and a long time user of Snagit. I started using Snagit over a decade ago while serving in the United States Air Force. I found the program so useful, I bought it with my own money to use on the military projects that I over saw. When my IT manager saw how useful the product was, he finally agreed to buy several licenses for our unit to use! Over the years I purchased several upgrades for my personal use, as well and I have continued to use the the program in my retirement.

I have watch the Snagit improve greatly during the last decade and it is, in my opinion, the defacto software for screen captures for the Windows operating system---bar none. Unfortunately, with the release of Snagit v11, this is no longer true. The removal of the aforementioned features will now force me (and others who use them) to find another programs that support these task, which is something I really don't want to do. Oh well...
Photo of Priyanta Dharmasena

Priyanta Dharmasena

  • 1 Post
  • 2 Reply Likes
I have the old setup files for an older version. I think I'm going to revert to an older version.
I have worked for some of the largest Class A software companies in the world over the last (almost) 30 years. But - I would love to hear how you get your user feedback and how you illicit feedback from your user community!
When Windows Paint has some basic user functions that you removed - that is not an improvement to your product.
Photo of Geoff Bomford

Geoff Bomford

  • 1 Post
  • 4 Reply Likes
I won't be upgrading, I've never seen an upgrade with fewer features before!
Photo of raylasky12

raylasky12

  • 11 Posts
  • 9 Reply Likes
Ive Not up graded my TechSmith products twice now...and have left my real money on the table...because of the poor choices in removing features. This kind of mindset and behavior at TechSmith needs to be "removed". It creates bad will in a customer centric marketplace. It isnt cute or smart...or appreciated by your money paying customers. I love your products...they are brilliant...but whoever fosters this attitude at Techsmith (Even the CEF/CFO)...it need to stop. Your research is way off.
Photo of cwoolfork

cwoolfork

  • 7 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
Well said!...
Photo of marktippin

marktippin

  • 5 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Have to agree with the dissenting comments about feature removal. I have been a user for over 10 years - often buying with my own money until the company I work for or consult with sees the amazing benefits.

Your product is used quite heavily for training purposes, and often in environments that are trying to squeeze every last drop of life out of their older equipment (schools, libraries, non-profits) and I'd imagine they've come to rely on the knowledge that no matter what they need to do, SnagIt will deliver.

While I realize that infinite support for obsolete or aging platforms is not possible, I'm guessing that your CIP data collected by those that opt-in to share it with you is not broadly indicative of your core, net-promoter user base.

Regards,

-MT
Photo of Andy Reyes

Andy Reyes

  • 3 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
why was so much function removed or restricted in version 10?

Restricted the use of GIF and 256-color image files to only during opening and saving
Removed support for several file formats including .msp, .cal, .pcx, .raw, etc.
Removed the ability to capture full screen DOS windows.
Removed the ability to capture icons from .exe and .dll files.
Removed the "Create Web Page" feature.
Removed the Web Capture mode.
Removed the ability to capture from DirectX applications.
Removed various region capture options including capturing triangle region, a rounded rectangle region, an ellipse region, etc.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Why was so much function removed or restricted Snagit in version 10?.
Photo of cwoolfork

cwoolfork

  • 7 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
@Andy: My points exactly! All the features you mentioned have been removed, yet the price of the software stays the same! Furthermore, if you need to use any of the 'removed features', you'll to find another software that performs those functions at your own expense! Might as well dump Snagit all together, in that case.
Photo of atty

atty

  • 7 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Tiffany, you have a tough job. The engineers wreck a perfectly good program by removing features and then put you on the front line to paint it a different color. I applaud your efforts, but it's difficult to sell the concept that less is better.

There are many software manufacturers that offer options, add-ons, modules, etc. I think Techsmith needs to go back to the marketing drawing board. They have left a loyal portion of their customer base in the ditch.
Photo of Public2

Public2

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
While I agree with everyone that this was a poor move, I must insert a correction on atty's attack "The engineers wreck..." I doubt the company allows technicians (i.e., software developers) to make decisions like which features to put in or take out. Actually, it's a failure of marketing, whose job it is to make sure developers create products that are demanded by purchasers as reported by Sales, and make sure management knows what the developers can and can't do and how much time (which is money) everything will take.

The problem is (1) possibly started by a skewed survey as pointed out already, (2) a failure to understand upgrade and "improvements" psychology. Snagit Marketing Management should have realizes a basic truth: it doesn't help sales to add 50 new features but delete 5 supposedly unpopular features if those who do use the 5 deleted features are core supporters, software decision-makers, procurement and others who recommend what companies should buy. Don't piss off those who are happy to publicize the problems widely via the web and change minds.

To give a simple example, let's say feature X is only used by 1% of current users. You might say that would be a reasonable target for removal if the code is hard to maintain & debug. Is it, though, if one of people you've pissed off is John Dvorak, who wrote two monthly columns for PC Magazine. When John isn't happy he just writes one column, which can do tremendous damage not just for this product but for a company's entire product line. What if a spreadsheet program deletes a feature used by only 1% of users, but that 1% is made up of top financial analysts and senior corporate financial management? Suddenly all the Fortune 500 companies not only drop the product but spread the word about another company's software that CAN do what they like. You can hit a "tipping point" that can bring down a company!

The mistake Marketing made in this case is they figured the few advanced customers who used these features were low on quantity of people which made them low on quality of people. I use the word quality to make a point, not to suggest the users who don't care are poor quality. But let's face it. One person using the product at home and who never tells anyone else about it is not the same as one person who is influential in purchasing decisions made by ten thousand people.

Snagit should recover by rewriting the features in modern code. You can regain the trust and customer relationships you've damaged or destroyed with this event, but you have to stop being stubborn. Admit the mistake, fix it, apologize for the trouble you've cost, and let time heal all wounds.
Photo of K S

K S

  • 3 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Well said! Very knowledgeable and educational.
Photo of kmalittl1

kmalittl1

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
The new release (I have 10.0.1) lists among its accomplishments the removal of 7 features and a restriction on another. Removal of support for certain file formats (.msp, .cal, .pcx, .raw, etc) seems strange. Upgrading should improve upon existing features, not remove these. Please explain.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Removal of features in upgrade?.
Photo of Cool16v

Cool16v

  • 5 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
I'm digging the discussion! Is TechSmith listening to these comments? More importantly, what are you going to do about it TechSmith?

I too have been using Snagit since release 8 and on the previous support forum we had lots of feature requests and suggestions that I hoped and anticipated would be coming out by now. Rather than get these new features, we've seem to have gone in a different direction. Why?

Did we just dump the old forum suggestions and wipe the slate clean with "get satisfaction" (contradictory term in this case) and say we don't need to address those requests?

Maybe we can open it up for discussion on "The Forge" or the "News Letter"?

Contrary to what you might think Techsmith, I really enjoy using your products and it really makes my day-to-day life a whole lot easier but when you start taking away features and don't break out all the goodies for us to use, well, it's almost like we're stuck in the ol' 80s CTRL + Prt Screen days. Ya know what I mean? What about a little bit more innovation?
Photo of davidpsr

davidpsr

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
I have used SnagIt almost since its humble beginnings. In its day it was a truly unique and much-needed utility. Removing features and calling it a paid "Upgrade" is a new one on me.


IMHO, the best solution would be to allow the user to selectively install or not install the features that were 'removed' in the Ver. 10 to Ver. 11 "upgrade." That way, those who still use the features that you deem unnecessary would not have to go through the trouble of finding other software solutions and in the long term making SnagIt software far less vital.

Photo of Public2

Public2

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
An excellent suggestion that should be followed if the situation repeats itself.
Photo of scott.rynd

scott.rynd

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
It appears that Snagit v11 removes more functionality than it adds or improves. What is the reason for this and what compelling reasons are there to upgrade from v10?

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Snagit v11 lesser than v10?.
Photo of Steve A

Steve A

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
I need to add my voice to those who disapprove of your feature removal strategy. In particular, I don't understand the benefit, even for your developers, of removing the icon extraction from EXEs and DLLs. The icons are still there in the files, and have worked the same way for several generations of Windows -- why bother to touch your code at all?

I use this feature on a regular basis, and won't be upgrading until you put it back.
Photo of Adam Marks

Adam Marks, Software Developer

  • 124 Posts
  • 17 Reply Likes
Hi Steve,

Thanks for the feedback, unfortunately the format of icons changed starting with Vista when a new style of icon started with a embedded PNG file format and our existing code was not able to extract this new kind of icon.

Here is a link to a free utility that should work well to pull icons out of EXEs and DLLs and it has been updated to work with PNG icons also :
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/iconsext...

Thanks,
Adam
Photo of atty

atty

  • 7 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
So I guess you're saying that the new icon code is just too much to handle and we should use a 3rd party software to bail us out of this alleged upgrade?
Photo of Mike62

Mike62

  • 582 Posts
  • 166 Reply Likes
Personally, I did the upgrade/paid for it hoping for new features or enhancements. Am using SnagIt for screencaptures only. Enhancements like having a brush in the editor, like zooming in/out in (much) smaller steps, like 5% or so, thinner crosshair,
etc.
Frankly, I hate to say it, but upon consideration and if you are using screencaptures only (i.e. no video recording stuff) then I donot think the upgrade is worth paying for.
Photo of Andy Evony

Andy Evony

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
The only thing that I see in the new features that I would buy it for is the spell checker.
Photo of cwoolfork

cwoolfork

  • 7 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
I have just switched to another screen capture program that allows me to capture scrolling web pages. This new program is not free, but it allows me to capture a scrolling web page in just a couple of clicks. The interface is not as slick as Snagit, but at least it works. So long Snagit....it was nice knowing ya!
Photo of apadkow

apadkow

  • 3 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Please stop with the "continue to offer a superior user experience". Removing so many features from SnagIt and the new Camtasia release results in a HORRIBLE user experience.

I've been a fan of Techsmith since Camtasia 4 and bought 12 licenses for my teams for Camtasia and SnagIt and have been paying maintenance on those licenses throughout the years. I'm very unhappy that TechSmith thinks they are making progress. You will lose customers and kill your reputation if this isn't reversed.
Photo of Linda

Linda

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
Oh, heck. My new project is to create twiki help using web shots from the application. But I have SnagIt 11, and now learn that I will have to go back to 10 (time-consuming, and I have a deadline) or look for a workaround software. This would have been my first use of web capture mode.

It seemed like SnagIt would surely grow with new trends, and web capture is growing. How did you determine which users did not use particular features? No one included me in a survey, and I'm a longtime user who recommended you to everyone. Also, no one replied to my suggestion for an improvement in an earlier version (which was to restore another removed function that I had used all the time).
Photo of Adam Marks

Adam Marks, Software Developer

  • 124 Posts
  • 17 Reply Likes
Hi Linda,

Thank you for your feedback. It is still possible to capture content from any web page using Snagit 11 using the all-in-one capture mode.

The feature that we removed was called "web capture" and what it really did was spider through a website grabbing only the images from various web pages on a given site.

Thanks,
Adam
Photo of Evelino

Evelino

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Adam,
I bought the 11 version but need to have the "magnify" feature: is it possible to download the 10 version that support this feature ?
Thanks, evelino
Photo of Rick Stone

Rick Stone

  • 5868 Posts
  • 2798 Reply Likes
Hi there

When you install SnagIt (and many other applications) you are usually offered an option to send anonymous usage data.

To toggle this off or on, open SnagIt's preferences and click the "Improve Snagit" tab.



Cheers... Rick :)


Photo of Rick Stone

Rick Stone

  • 5868 Posts
  • 2798 Reply Likes
Evelino, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "the maginify feature". Can you expound on what you mean by that?
Photo of Matt Davis

Matt Davis

  • 1 Post
  • 2 Reply Likes
Wow. I almost clicked the upgrade button. Glad I waited. Sounds like the pitch is missing the audience. I can't understand how a mild face lift justifies gutting functionality. I also don't understand why they think we are dumb enough to go for it.

Its like going to the mechanic for a tune up with a Benz and leaving with a slightly newer Cobalt. then having the mechanic tell you that the heated seats power windows and navigation are not used by "most" customers so he removed them; but look at the shinny new paint!
Photo of Public2

Public2

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Actually this is done more often than you would think. Apple just released new hardware that requires a new USB interface cable. You either pay for a converter or pay for the cable. It can do this because its followers treat the company is an inanimate religious figure.

I do understand why companies want to get rid of old code. Often documentation is poor, resulting in "spaghetti code" as in Windows before 95 and MS-DOS. The way it should have been dealt with is to either redevelop the features using well-documented code, making the default installation option to leave out the bad code except for those who need it (implying they find it works for them), or making the old features add-ins so those who want it can have it while the vast majority won't and will never notice the difference.
Photo of Tiffany Wood

Tiffany Wood

  • 157 Posts
  • 16 Reply Likes
Hi Mr. Davis,
I apologize if you are disappointed. We did add a lot of great new functionality and feature requests to Release 11. Here is some information on what's new:
http://www.techsmith.com/snagit-whats...

Our user data indicated that these features were not used and we have better workarounds for some of the options as well. If you currently use something that we removed, it would be helpful to understand what you use. Specific examples are very helpful as we continue to try to improve Snagit.

Thank you,
Tiffany
Photo of Public2

Public2

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Poor Tiffany is doing the best she can to deal with this situation. Finding out how people specifically use the deleted features and then recoding them is a good idea, but it's also too little too late for many.
Photo of atty

atty

  • 7 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Once again Tiffany, I realize you are saddled with the burden of advancing management's "excuses" and are not an author of the "canned scripts".

That having been said, this constant reference to "Our user data....." is apparently in error judging from the responses that you have received on this forum. It is pretty obvious that "our" data tells us, and should tell your management, that this little maneuver is not in favor with the end users. Your "workarounds" are not a substitute for what end users feel is a major short change in functionality. I understand the need for software engineers, but marketing needs to realize that if customers feel that the package has been shorted, and to add insult to injury, marketed as an "upgrade", they are naturally a little upset.

"Our data" is only as good as the people, with their varying perspectives, interpret it. This rather substantial reaction (just on this forum) should tell somebody that it might be time to re-think.
Photo of cwoolfork

cwoolfork

  • 7 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
In the interest of transparency and full disclosure,Techsmith should post the "research and user data analysis" that they collected that lead them to remove the features listed in this forum! Or better yet, just put the darn features back in the next update or make them available as an "add-on" or "plug-in" so those of us who need them can still use them! Sheeese!
Photo of Public2

Public2

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
I don't agree with this solution. Corporations have reasons to keep how and why they do things secret, and in fact all do so). A better solution is to send a notice to those customers who haven't said "don't bother me" asking them if and how they use these features, and perhaps whether they are home users, professionals, or in corporations.

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.